Curse

tomcruisejr · Jan 18, 2007, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

Remove 7 enchants with a 120 sec disable? It would be down just way way too long.

i just threw in a number, but you get the idea. just keep the number of enchant removed and the seconds disable proportionally balanced.

Thom Bangalter · Jan 18, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

It's only too strong when grenth is up, otherwise it's fine. (wild blow, that is)

Patrograd · Jan 18, 2007, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

It's only too strong when grenth is up, otherwise it's fine. (wild blow, that is)

Hmm

Wild blow (auto hit, auto crit) is borderline imba imo on any character with lots of energy regen and no requirement for adrenaline, as the balance in the skill is in the adrenaline loss, clearly designed for warriors. It is especially imba on a scythe because of the base damage of a scythe making it worth about 80 damage onto a 60AL target for 5 energy and fast recharge

Not sure how you could fix it and still make it viable for a warrior to use though.

JR · Jan 18, 2007, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

Not sure how you could fix it and still make it viable for a warrior to use though.

A common suggestion is to give Wild Blow a Strength requirement (fails at 4 or less). Not a solution I particularly like as it is rather limiting, but I haven't really heard anything that is more elegant.

Xenex Xclame · Jan 18, 2007, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Not a solution I particularly like as it is rather limiting, but I haven't really heard anything that is more elegant.

Yeah thats not something i would like to see either.
Would making it cost 5 adreneline have any impact? What do you think. ( you as in all)

Arshay Duskbrow · Jan 18, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

That would make it virtually useless since usually the whole point of removing a stance is to be able to hit them in the first place.

Wild Blow should be left alone. It's a core skill and one of the very few ways to counter stances effectively, and that's something that should also be available to W secondaries.

If anything, you could remove the "always critical" component to make it less devastating with a scythe, although A/W's wouldn't be too happy...

Thomas.knbk · Jan 18, 2007, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Wild Blow: 5e 5r
If Wild Blow hits, any stance used by your target ends. Wild Blow has an additional 0...75% to be a critical hit. (much like GftE so that at ~12 strength it would be an almost 100% chance combined with your weapon mastry) This attack cannot be blocked or evaded.

Xenex Xclame · Jan 18, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Im guessing that means you put it in strength correct?

Thomas.knbk · Jan 18, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Yeah it does.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10107060
back to Avatar of Grenth

ensoriki · Jan 19, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

There are potent Enchantment removals

assault enchantments is a fine enchant removal, 15 seconds isnt that bad in retrospect seeing as you can just go
Expose defenses black spider strike twisting fangs assault enchantments black lotus hoto/blade of steel

The problem with AoG is that the dervish skills themselves! have a low recharge...which is problematic even sins have a recharge of 4-18 seconds on their skills (negated with sins promise) and their primarily spikers. if anything Aog should be left alone and no dervish attack should have no less then a 5-7 second recharge except for wearying strike/elites

Wasteland Squidget · Jan 19, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

There are potent Enchantment removals

assault enchantments is a fine enchant removal, 15 seconds isnt that bad in retrospect seeing as you can just go
Expose defenses black spider strike twisting fangs assault enchantments black lotus hoto/blade of steel

The problem with AoG is that the dervish skills themselves! have a low recharge...which is problematic even sins have a recharge of 4-18 seconds on their skills (negated with sins promise) and their primarily spikers. if anything Aog should be left alone and no dervish attack should have no less then a 5-7 second recharge except for wearying strike/elites

If dervish attack skills get a longer recharge I'll just use Prot Strike to do the same thing.

As for Assault Enchantments - if you can't see the difference between an attack that has to be used as part of a combo and something that triggers on any attack skill, we shouldn't be discussing game balance. To be effective, Assault Enchantments has to be led by some specific skills and multiple consecutive hits on a single target, all of which is very unlikely given the current meta of wards and Aegis chains. Likewise, they can always reapply prot in-between combos, while the Grenth continues to remove prot at a constant rate.

leguma · Jan 26, 2007, 12:17 AM // 00:17

The problem that I see with Avatar of Grenth is that the benefits require no investment. Yes, Mysticism affect the duration, but other than that, there is nothing in the skill to determine the palyer to invest points in it. This applies to Grenth as well as Melandru and Balthazar, while Dwayna and Lyssa require significant inventment to make the most out of it.

As it it, Avatar of Grenth has no downside to it, and the way the duration scales (which is fine IMO and should not be hit) makes it easy to sprea across a third attribute line. If anything I would like The skill to be reworked so that you have a 6% chance of removing an enchantment whenever you use an attack skill, with a base 4%. At 16 Mysticism, this would give you a 100% chance to remove enchantments, however, at the 11-12 range where people normally run it, it would only be a 65-75%.

While not being a major change to the way the skill works, and making it no less viable with a serious inventment in mysticism, it will prevent spreading out into Wind Prayers to get cripple and all the other benefits. This change, combined with any block/evade would allow enchantments to still be viable, instead of just a waste of energy.

Likewise, this could be applied to the Melandru's Avatar, either by giving a % chance of ignoring conditions or shortening the duration of conditions by a %, while the Balth avatar could get a scalable armor or movement boost.

Symbol · Jan 26, 2007, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

As for Assault Enchantments - if you can't see the difference between an attack that has to be used as part of a combo and something that triggers on any attack skill, we shouldn't be discussing game balance. To be effective, Assault Enchantments has to be led by some specific skills and multiple consecutive hits on a single target, all of which is very unlikely given the current meta of wards and Aegis chains. Likewise, they can always reapply prot in-between combos, while the Grenth continues to remove prot at a constant rate.

No, you don't understand how assault enchantments works. You need one dual attack to connect. Then for as long as the dual attack mark lasts on the target, you can remove all enchantments every 2 seconds, from range, at a cost of 5 energy per pop.

In terms of raw enchant removal potential it's, if anything, superior to avatar of grenth. It's just that the AoG dervish is pumping out big damage numbers and perma-cripple while he's demolishing your enchants.

yesitsrob · Feb 02, 2007, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Avatar of Grenth: increased Energy cost to 15.

That extra 5 energy has definitely fixed the problem of the Grenth Dervish, we can all play a balanced game again [/WOWSARCASM]

The actual problem with the Grenth's Dervish continues to be ignored with nerfs only being to it's recharge and cost. Not the actual effect of the skill, which is what is broken here.

kvndoom · Feb 02, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Not to mention the nerf to Wild Blow as well.

Wasteland Squidget · Feb 02, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

It's this kind of thing that makes me think Arenanet has absolutely no idea how their game works, and no desire to learn.

Vermilion · Feb 02, 2007, 01:56 AM // 01:56

If they were going to increase the energy alone, I would have gone for 25. Sure Melandru has multiple positive effects as opposed to Grenths 1, (cold dmg is a nonissue) but Grenths enchant removal effect is much..better? more imbalanced? Something like that.

Patccmoi · Feb 02, 2007, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Just want to point out that the duration of Avatars also got nerfed and Grenth will likely last 10-15 less seconds. It's still not a huge nerf, but it's a much more significant nerf than raising it to 15E. And it goes along with a significant nerf to Harrier's Grasp, and even Wild Blow, while at the same time seeing things like Weapon of Warding getting a significant buff.

So yes, Grenth stays as it is cause i think ANet wants a serious counter to Prot Monks in place, but the overall build will likely be less dominating than it was imo.

Crystal Titan · Feb 08, 2007, 10:31 PM // 22:31

maybe something like 75% chance to remove enchantment and you cant remove enchantment if your health is below 75%
or maybe you sac 5-15%? healt each time you remove an enchantment, you cant remove enchantments if your healt is below 75%

Patrick Smit · Feb 08, 2007, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by leguma

The problem that I see with Avatar of Grenth is that the benefits require no investment. Yes, Mysticism affect the duration, but other than that, there is nothing in the skill to determine the palyer to invest points in it. This applies to Grenth as well as Melandru and Balthazar, while Dwayna and Lyssa require significant inventment to make the most out of it.

As it it, Avatar of Grenth has no downside to it, and the way the duration scales (which is fine IMO and should not be hit) makes it easy to sprea across a third attribute line. If anything I would like The skill to be reworked so that you have a 6% chance of removing an enchantment whenever you use an attack skill, with a base 4%. At 16 Mysticism, this would give you a 100% chance to remove enchantments, however, at the 11-12 range where people normally run it, it would only be a 65-75%.

While not being a major change to the way the skill works, and making it no less viable with a serious inventment in mysticism, it will prevent spreading out into Wind Prayers to get cripple and all the other benefits. This change, combined with any block/evade would allow enchantments to still be viable, instead of just a waste of energy.

Likewise, this could be applied to the Melandru's Avatar, either by giving a % chance of ignoring conditions or shortening the duration of conditions by a %, while the Balth avatar could get a scalable armor or movement boost.

I like your (idea) of the avatar. I think that would b e a good way to solve the problems of immunity. Immunity was never a problem before, there was always a chance to get hit or whatsoever. The dervish is outranking wars somehow, and i find that not right. Scythe damage may be reduced to hammer levels they already got the benefit of hitting more then one adjacent enemy.